Many of you may have heard news that 13 cardinals wrote a letter to PF complaining about the procedures and methods of the Synod. You can access the text of the letter here. Bear in mind that this journalist has been denied credentialing by the Vatican press office because he violated an embargo on the pope’s encyclical Laudato si, releasing it about a week before the official release date. The journalist, Sandro Magister, is not shy about his dislike for the pope, yearning deeply for the days of Benedict XVI. In the press conference today, this letter was cast into doubt big time as to its authenticity as two of the cardinals who are supposedly signatories of it deny they signed it at all. The sniping and whining about the procedures and the methods, the quality of the translation of the Instrumentum laboris and whether the final report has “disappeared”, yes, disappeared when it hasn’t been written yet, continue on.
As regards the text of my notes below: almost the entire press conference was in English including most of the questions. The key parts in my mind are the comments related by Fr Rosica on what he heard in the interventions of the English speaking bishops and some of what the lay couples said, especially in response to a question on women and on whether they really feel they are taking an active part, the very last question posed by Fr. Lombardi. As regards to Brazilian Wife, her response on women, for a seemingly very intelligent women, had me grimacing in the “bleachers” out with the journalists. Hope nobody up front noticed, but I sit right in the center of the front row of the back section, at the end of the middle aisle in full view. Hmmm….
Another interesting thing I picked up last night while cruising the web is that some very, very, nasty comments were plastered all over Fr Rosica’s twitter account by extreme right-wing, trad’s. They were taken down and Rosica has managed to get them banned from posting on his account. I have only one idea as to why but they, the nasty commenters, have it wrong. He only reports what he is hearing in the sessions when he reports comments. This happened over the weekend after he made his first report of comments. I take it some of these folks were thinking they were his original thoughts. All I can say is that they must be really running scared that there little, self-enclosed version of Catholicism is definitely threatened. We all know what PF has said about self-enclosed versions of the church….they smell bad from being closed up and are sick.
October 12, 2015
Please note: although the words and responses of the various entities seem verbatim, they are a “summary” of what I heard them say. Do not assume everything here is exactly as it was said. I do my best to take accurate notes but these news conferences are very fast paced. However, today I went to the Vatican’s website for Synod 15 for reporters and went back through all of the English-speaking panelists and transcribed their exact words. That is what you are reading fro Fr. Rosica and the two couples.
Fr. Lombardi, Vatican Spokesperson
Fr. Dorantes, Official Spanish Translator for the Vatican
Fr Rosica, English media attache for the Vatican
Ms. Ferrauto, lay participant (not sure her official title)
Fr. Dorantes, Official Spanish Translator for the Vatican
- Hagenkord, SJ, Director of Vatican Radio’s German Program
Note: halfway through the press conference, two couples replaced all the panelists except Lombardi. One couple was from India and the other from Brazil. Both couples were very fluent in English.
The first part of this press conference will be devoted to the reports of the different interventions on the first part of the Instrumentum laboris (hereafter, “IL”..rr). Between Saturday and this morning there were 43 totally devoted to part 3. After the Saturday debates, (note: there is about an hour free time every afternoon for open discussions) the small groups started work on part 3. Today we will deal with the small groups with their presentation available on Wednesday. (Note: I may not have this exactly correct as Lombardi moves fast and presumes a high level of how things are laid out for the Synod). Also the Italian translator via the headset is sometimes slow in her responses and he has then moved on to something else…rr)
There will be general debate on part 3 from Saturday (this last…rr) to Wednesday afternoon or until Thursday morning. There will be a new report on the small groups on Wednesday.
Regarding two questions received and some confusion:
- Regarding the misunderstanding or what is happening with the final report: some have claimed that the final report has already “disappeared”. According to the Secretariat of the Synod, Crd. Baldesseri, the small groups will give their “modi” (or recommendations for edits for the IL) which will be added to the IL. Their work will become part of the IL and given to the Synod Fathers. The final report, “Relation finalis” will be debated and then presented on the afternoon of Saturday, October 24 and submitted to the Holy Father. He will make the final decision as to its status. This was also explained on the first day of the Synod. We have no way of knowing what the Holy Father’s plans in relation to it will be at this time. If he says to publish it, we will do so. He may wait and revise it some and then write an Apostolic Exhoration on it. We don’t know what or when. The Holy Father has not expressed an opinion on it. Crd Tagle (in a previous press conference, Tagle made a comment in relation to the final report that was a bit vague….rr) was expressing what has historically happened in previous Synods. (Lombardi then quoted from the rules of the Synod, handbook in hand..rr)
It has been reported that 13 Cardinals wrote to the pope regarding their concern with procedures and methods of the Synod. The thirteen names were listed as part of this letter. Two of them have declared they did not sign this letter. (Note: Sandro Magister has published the letter at this address: http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/1351154?eng=y I do not have this addressed “linked”. Access it by copying and pasting the address into your browsers URL box…..rr)
As Fr Lombardi has said, the interventions on part 3 have begun. The topic of formation and accompaniment has been raised. The Synod Fathers have asked for a beginning phase of marriage, like an apprenticeship or novitiate. The family will be included in this. Also discussed was how to reconcile truth and mercy. Access to the sacraments was debated. In referring to doctrine, easy access is not possible. Others have suggested pastoral solutions. The possible “discipline” should be that of Jesus Christ. The assembly has admitted truth should be merciful, that the two extremes are not possible: extreme rigidity or extreme laxity. Other topics addressed: inter-religious marriage and sexual harassment. I am surprised and struck by the quality of the interventions. Interesting proposals are made. The Synod Fathers will talk of their own lives in family. The talk of problems is frank. There is the reference made between the sin and sinner, that it doesn’t work for sexuality. There is a difference between the public and the private that is not easy to make anymore.
I repeat what Fr. Hagenkord said. It was extremely inspiring and hopeful. On Saturday, I was listening to some extraordinary pastors who really have the smell of the sheep and some wonderful lay people who are giving testimonies. My comments will be based on some of the English interventions of the 43 that were given. I am just going through the interventions and highlighting some of the points. One key point: for God, no human being is a stranger. There is a divine pedagogy involved in the healing process that must take place with all human beings. There was a reflection on the power of the keys in relation to the Jubilee Year of Mercy that will begin on December 8th. If we speak of the Lord’s year of favor, which is every jubilee year, that also includes the forgiveness of sin for all of those on earth, for all of those who are particularly in an anomalous situation. The question was raised how can we really seize the Jubilee Year and the momentum to celebrate that and open wide the doors of God’s mercy. It was an open question. An important point was made that the sexual act and human sexuality represent only one part of the whole sense of family life and marriage that we are speaking about. It is much more complex and much more rich than simply reducing it to that. Could there be a recognized ministry to families endorsed by episcopal conferences throughout the world so that its not left up to individual dioceses but a real general theme of episcopal conferences who sponsor specific ministries to families. The question came up about a “rite” of mixed marriages given the number of countries that have different religious groups together, and people living peacefully together. How can we have a rite of mixed marriages? Is it possible? We talked about the separation that people experience, separated spouses who have children. A need for close pastoral accompaniment of people in difficult situations. The Church must be an accompanying mother who does not reject anyone but reaches out to all and the key is to remain firm in theological principles but to make ecclesiastical discipline flexible and not impossible for pastorally difficult or near impossible situations. The topic of new family structures arose. That there are all kinds of new family structures that are in play and the Church is in the midst of them. We have single parent families. Parents of mixed faith families. Families of same sex couples. Families without close support of grandparents or the absence of grandparents. Families of grandparents and children without the presence of parents. Families that are separated by continual migration or refugee difficulties in the world. Intergenerational poverty. Many families are simply left out of our pastoral strategies and we have to develop pastoral strategies for the many different situations that families find themselves in today. We have to reach out to those who do not fit our traditional categories. New families can no longer remain alienated from the Church and the Church cannot remain absent from these new situations. If Pope Francis has called us to be “revolutionaries of tenderness”, it is difficult to keep that tenderness alive at times and the story of the Prodigal Son was referred to several times in the interventions as an icon of model of dealing with these situations. Another key point that came up was that in an extremely secular society, their liberal attitudes towards divorce, premarital sex, contraception, abortion and same sex unions that become a great challenge to address. Our main task is not in first place to tell moral laws and to point out sins to people but it is to show the beauty and value of Christian marriage and the necessity of families through which humanity passes. Sometimes the best thing we can do in such complex secular situations is to give the testimony of one’s life, a testimony of fidelity and joy. From the afternoon sessions (he is referring to Saturday…rr) which was a very moving, powerful and inspiring session, just a couple of points. One archbishop said our mission is to make disciples but culture is more effective in unmaking them. That’s a reality we have to admit and how do we go about making disciples? What was proposed was following the pedagogy or methodology of the Gospel story of the disciples on the road to Emmaus in Luke’s Gospel, chapter 24. We spoke about discriminations, accusations, blasphemy that Christians experience. Very difficult political situations of persecution. Secularization and the religions that are at work in each country and often time the distortion of those religions. We need to constantly teach and acknowledge the truth and goodness of Christian marriage while at the same time accompanying people with love and understanding, especially those who are hurting. Those are the points from the English speaking groups.
I will talk about some interventions on part 1 of the IL. There was a question on access of sacraments for the divorced and remarried, the civilly remarried. These situations can make a contribution in endangering the Gospel. Accompaniment of those in difficult situations but still emphasizing the indissolubility of marriage was discussed. We should not miss any opportunity in the Synod to talk about this. Also there is a need to define the purpose of the doctrine of the indissolubility of marriage. There was a focus on the crisis of fidelity of family. Moral consciousness was discussed as there should be a focus on people. Mention should be made on contraception. Should focus on natural family planning. The international community is spending 1.8 billion to aid in artificial contraception to underdeveloped countries. There is little or no aid dedicated to NFP. The focus should be on the priority of accompanying couples. The French speaking groups sponsor and support formation to explain to and broaden concepts on marriage to the faithful. Liturgy to the married should be supported.
(He was reporting on the Spanish and Portugese interventions..rr)
Marriage preparation was emphasized. Remote and close formation was discussed. Conscience was discussed..it is not possible to separate doctrine from reality. The role of conscience is sometimes reduced to loosened pastoral care. We should not abandon the formation of conscience. Open and suitable judgment of moral situations was emphasized. Accompany all couples in the formation of conscience. The Synod Fathers should accompany people but the people should accompany the Synod Fathers.
I will give some specific observations:
- There is no objection to teaching and church theology and historic conscience of the changes that have occurred throughout the centuries regarding practice and doctrine.
- Eucharist to the divorced and remarried brought up. There were very precise stances in the context of the focus of the Church vis a vis difficult situations. These couples should be integrated and made to feel close. Regarding the Eucharist, very rigid stance.
- Hints were put forward on the reform of the process and the time requited for nullity or validity of marriage. A few interventions were on this but it will be interesting if there are others.
- There was discussion of Asian and Islamic countries
I have one thing. I thought this would come up in the others. I am just going to raise it as it did come up in the other language groups that was very point in the English during the free time. One bishop spoke about the two pole or extremes—not Polish people!—pole or extremes that are at work among us. Either all or nothing. And he described it this way. We change absolutely nothing or we change everything and neither of these extremes is an option. He said we have before us a great field of pastoral creativity and we can no longer speak of the ways we have been speaking about things. The old way was truth and public, mercy and private. That no longer holds. Also the same expression “Condemn the sin and not the sinner”, that no longer holds. We have to find new ways of expressing these things so people can understand them.
This is the first part group interventions for this week. We will continue on this with this week.
Question: (Made even though Fr Lombardi had not turned the floor over to the journalists for asking questions….rr)
I would like to ask, although you make precise statements on this “document”, is it real or is it false? (I think this person was asking this in reference to the final document, the Relatio finalis that will be the summation of the Synod….rr). The dynamic doesn’t seem to be going to a precise stance. Maybe the opposition of some of the cardinals may not make an impact. (this in reference to the previously mentioned letter supposedly signed by 13 cardinals….rr)
The pope should say if he received it or not. We can only state some of the cardinals said they didn’t sign it. One the second day of the Synod, Crd. Baldesseri reitereated the procedures and the Holy Father confirmed them. No other debate was made on it at that time. The Holy Father has said that they way we have proceeded is the way to go forward.
At this point, all of the panelists except Fr. Lombardi left and two couples were introduced. One was from India, a mixed religion couple with the wife very active in the Church and who has studied theology, and one from Brazil, both university professors. Both spoke in fluent English. I have transcribed their remarks exactly as they made them from the video posted on-line…..rr
We have invited two couples to come give some idea of the variety of the discussions.
I am going to speak in English. I hope you will be able to understand what I am going to be saying. My husband and I are married 39 years and we had a love marriage. Both of us came from different communities. You know in India, everyone is of a different community. We met. We had very similar backgrounds. Our family structures were very similar. Our parents were both in the army. We met at a party and we exchanged conversation. Life went on. After some time, we got a little serious and my husband decided that he wanted to marry me. We told our parents about it. Since we both come from very liberal families, families with open minds, they were quite happy for us. So, we had a wonderful celebration. Now in another 3 months time, we have the joy of telling you we are married 39 years. So, we have children. We have a contented life. I work full-time for the Church in Mumbai. I have been working about 45 years in Mumbai for the Church in different portfolios. Eventually we were told we were invited to the Synod. We got quite a surprise. We couldn’t believe our ears that we were going to come to the Synod. It was a wonderful experience. We shared our testimony Saturday at the Synod about our marriage, inter-community marriage. It has been working well all these years. Thank you.
I was born a Hindu. I went to a Protestant school where I learned the basic concepts of the Christian religion, not necessarily Catholic but I was very inspired with the religion, Christianity. I assimilated the basic values of Christianity. I found my wife 38 years ago. I was captured with her love. I found she was a very devote Catholic. I took a love for her and I decided to get married. Then I started going to Church regularly because I found that there was some purpose in the Catholic religion. I developed a love for Jesus. I started attending some theology courses which my wife conducted and ran for the archdiocese of Mumbai for a period of seven years. I finally learned of the teachings of Jesus. I was very inspired and I thought and pondered very carefully. Then finally, with the help of the Holy Spirit, I decided to get baptized. I was baptized 13 years ago on our silver wedding anniversary. My baptism immediately made my children decide to also get baptized, my son and my daughter. Now I find that there is a unified peace and love and harmony in the whole family.
Good afternoon to all. Pedro and I have been married almost 36 years. We have seven children and five grandchildren. It is a joy to be here at the Synod, participating in this historical moment of the Church which is exactly a very joyful moment. We have been experiencing this wonder of what people are calling synodality. I like to think collegiality. To see the different situation, it is a unique chance to see how the Church has a lot of diversity but unity. To see pastors that are so concerned with the family is actually a very unique experience.
Thirty-five years of marriage have been a tremendous joy for our family in spite of the challenges that we have faced which in nature are similar to those that so many other marriages and families face. We have some experience working with couples, both in Brazil and elsewhere wherever life has taken us. It’s been a wonderful experience seeing that there are so many couples, so many families out there that live the Christian moral values. As a consequence of that they have such a joy for life. Our opportunity to participate is the Synod has almost been overwhelming. We are very grateful to the Holy Father for this opportunity. We hope to be able to contribute as much as we can in the small circle discussions and eventually to give our testimony at the plenary session.
- Austen Ivereigh, OSv: There have been many speeches that have referred to the importance of preparation for couples. We have heard about a kind of quasi novitiate for couples or a catechumenate for couples. Everybody seems to agree that more preparation is necessary. Do you think, and perhaps I can direct this to Mr. and Mrs. D(?) (the Brazilian couple), do you think that from this Synod, there will come a firm commitment of the universal church to a kind of statutory amount of preparation or tentative preparation, perhaps a figure of 6 months we have heard or do you think it will be merely an expression of a desire that there should be more preparation which we have heard has been in many previous Church documents?
Actually dealing with married couples, I certainly think it is very interesting to have a good preparation for marriage. But even more important is an on-going continuation preparation. It is not something one….Pedro and I for instance had preparation and continue to have preparation. It just enriches our life. We are always changing. We go through different phases in life as a couple. it enriches our relationship as well as it puts us in contact with other couples. So, we can actually help each other. There is a dynamic there that is extremely important because we are not an isolated couple. We relate with others. I think on-going formation should be the focus.
(Ivereigh reiterates asking if they think it will become statutory.)
Definitely is seems to be an idea that permeates many of the Synod Fathers. Therefor I presume that there will be recommendations in the final document to the Holy Father which we expect will eventually produce a pastoral document that will make the proper recommendation for all bishops of the world in that direction. It is definitely a welcome innovation that we can say that an extended period of preparation and a continuous process of formation for the married couples who go through very different phases of marriage and family life. So this is definitely needed and would be very welcome.
Even in India we are very serious about marriage preparation courses. Every week we have about 250 couples coming for marriage preparation courses. Most of the couples are interfaith couples. We have inter-faith couples coming for catechesis and we have couples of the same religion who also come for catechesis. Definitely catechesis, understanding of what the Church wants from you, is very important today with the change of times that young people live. We definitely want young people to have happy, very strong, very stable marriage.s
- I would like to know if in the Synod if in the testimony of couples there has been any testimony of marriages that have not been successful, because not all married people are successful. Are there any testimonies of married people who are not successful? Another question: today it was reported in the Spanish press that an investigation that Pope Francis was doing about a case of a student (it was a sex abuse case, I think, by a lay teacher…rr) of a school in the north of Spain. It has been reported that the investigation has been closed by the Vatican. So, I would like to know if this information is true or not?
On the second question, I don’t know. I have nothing to add. I have no information.
Also on the first question, there has been no testimony on failed marriages but there has been testimony on difficulties. Friday we will have testimony from other couples. Maybe something will come from them.
- We said that at the family level, discussion should not only be related to couples but also about children. Should marriage preparation, more importantly, include child upbringing?
Indian Wife: (Note: she misunderstood the question, but she certainly seems proud of what they are doing!….rr)
I agree with you completely. It is a relevant question. Very good question. Well, I can answer from the context of India where every Sunday we have children who go to all the parishes on our churches. The 8:15 Mass is the children’s Mass. As soon as Mass is over, they go immediately for Sunday School. So, all the children go for Sunday School. All the big children go for Confirmation class. Together, the small children, the middle-age children, and the senior children are all studying. They have regular Bible quizzes, they have regular faith formation programs for Sunday School. The children are very, very involved in the pastoral ministries in Mumbai. They are involved in the churches. They are listening very carefully to the sermons. They put up lots of programs. They are very happy. So that was a good question.
If I understood correctly, the preparation courses for parenting are extremely important. How to raise your children. We find that parents are at a loss. They don’t know what to do with the different stages and each time we find greater challenges to be able to educate our children. There are a variety of courses already available where we live that are oriented age-wise. Its children the first few years, then when they are getting into kindergarten. At each stage of a child’s life there is a necessity for a specific orientation for the parents. Yes, I definitely think that is our mission, to raise our children well, to love and to serve God and the change our world for the better. So, I think…..we have professional formation, right?…we need these types of courses in our parishes.
I just want to comment on one aspect for your question. I believe you were referring to the preparation for marriage which should include also preparation for family. That’s definitely a necessity. We live in a society that downplays the aspect of a family that grows as a natural consequence of marriage. This openness to life is an intrinsic part of marriage itself. Therefore, any preparation for marriage has to take this into account. After all we are not just getting married, the two of us. We are getting married and welcoming God into our lives. We have to give him the opportunity to manifest his creation with our contribution in the process.
- Tom Reese, National Catholic Reporter: All of you have been involved in marriage ministry or working for the Church. So, I am trying to get a feel for things that might have surprised you at this meeting and in the discussions. I mean, you’ve been a lot to these discussions. You all know what the problems are facing families What is it—I’d like to know what surprised you during the discussions in the Synod hall? What was something new that you heard that you hadn’t ever heard before?
The diversity of all the cultural….the problems that Africa faces, the problems in India. I would say that the western problems in our country are very similar to the United States. It’s interesting to see the challenges. To see where we are at and that dis surprise us. I think we weren’t quite aware of all these challenges.
If I may say so, I found something very surprising after we arrived here to participate in the Synod. That is has been to see what the press has been publishing. That has been quite surprising in the sense that many, many times it doesn’t reflect what we see in there. There seem to be reports where basically the material we read seems to be to try to be suggestions of what the Synod Fathers should be talking about. We have the Instrumentum laboris. The content of that document is what is being dealt with by the Synod Fathers with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. So I was really surprised to see what is coming out not being quite faithful.
I think I was very, very surprised, in fact, amazed at the feeling, the compassion, the sympathy and the way all the Synod Fathers, the bishops, expressed their great love and concern for the family. In a small meeting we are about 30, 33 so we can talk very freely with each other It is very beautiful to see the great love, the hope, the understanding….how should the family be in today’s day and time knowing that in all parts of the world, the family is really running into a lot of problems and how do we contain this? How do we change this? How do we make this better? How do we make this in God’s light something beautiful? Every priest and every bishop and every cardinal spoke. All that they spoke was concern they felt for the family, especially for the families in distress. So, there is great hope that at the end we may have something very beautiful where our families may come out very well, especially our children.
I was very impressed by the whole concept of the Synod because it is for goodness and mercy to even those who have separated and those who have committed any sin to the family, to the Church. I found this was a very, very compassionate and loving atmosphere and attitude that the Synod was aiming at to bring families back into the fold of the Church and tell them that there is mercy and there was a (?) for sin as long as there was repentance and change. That has been a very, very important dynamic stand that the Church is taking in this current century.
- On the first part…how is the difference between sin and sinners not hold anymore?
Maybe you can leave it for later on.
- You said that what is happening in the Synod is not exactly matching what the media says. Lombardi is talking about a flexible document. But regarding that, flexible is quite concerning
I’m not sure I fully grasp the meaning of your question. First of all we have to understand the purpose of this Synod is to make recommendation to the pope in regards to pastoral issues. There is not really significant discussion taking place that touches on the questions of doctrine. Doctrine is not in question; it is just pastoral attitudes that have—by many of those who have spoken—have to go through revisions. There are problems in society today that need a proper approach. The focus is on advice to the pope in regards to pastoral changes that may be necessary. After all the title of the Synod is The Mission and Role of the Family in the Contemporary World, so we have to take the contemporary world into our discussions and see how the pastoral recommendations have to adapt to that. I’m not sure I satisfied your question….
- In various opportunities, the role of women was mentioned. Do you have reflection of women and of mothers that has been spoken to? For Fr Lombardi: will the final document be in Italian? Will there be a tally of vote by vote on the final document?
Yes, there was mention not only to the role of women, but also to the role of men. A family isn’t run by the woman—it shouldn’t be although I’m the president of my home and he (pointing to here husband) is the vice president. Still we do agree on issues, most of the time. So, of course it was discussed. Also some things were pointed out as regards the false feminism which really robs women of their role. I think that sort of has to be denounced because many women fall into that trap. Yes, that was discussed and also the role of grandparents to my delight. I see I have to be doing a lot more than I am. Grandparents do play a very important role in today’s society even with what is the concern since it has been identified that a lot of what we are dealing with is a crisis in faith. The role of the grandparents that bring this memory can revive and reconfirm the faith that passed to the fathers and reconfirm that with their grandchildren is extremely important
We were in our groups very concerned about women. We spoke about different aspects about women in India as well as all over the world. Women’s rights, women’s problems, women being victims of injustice, women who are single parents. Women all over the world are suffering in different ways. Definitely there is a very strong and sympathetic, compassionate attitude at the Synod for such women. They are looking to see how something wonderful can happen to such women. Even in India, we have so many widows at such an early age. What happens to them? Every meeting in the Church we see the Church is so fascinating. Every time we start talking about something we are talking, we are reflecting, we are thinking. But eventually something very beautiful comes out of it, something very positive. And that is why all of us are here in front of you. It is because of that positivity. It is that being very progressive that we are discussing, listening, talking and the laity are in the full picture. They are asking our opinion. They are very, very open to things. I feel that the days of women coming out will be much more. The Church is definitely supporting women, definitely.
- From Fr. Lombardi: Do you feel you are giving a contribution to the process of the Synod because you are auditors but not of full rights? But you are part of the small groups and you can intervene. Are you active in the process or people who listen and serve and have a good experience but ?
Fr. Lombardi doesn’t know women. I wonder if he knows that we can’t be quiet. We always have an opinion. Definitely, we are being heard. In our small groups we are always pressing the button (I am presuming they press a button when they want to speak…rr) and contributing with our experience of family
Absolutely. I received the invitation, I read the text and so, OK, I going to go there to listen. And that sometimes is the best part. But in the small groups we have had as much opportunity to participate and contribute as any of the other members. Of course, given the proper education that we have had, the bishops, the cardinals in our group, it is at a different level. Like my wife said, we contribute most with our experience with teaching courses to families, to couples about education of kids and so forth. But it is definitely an aspect that couples seem to be the best in that. And so it has been a very interesting experience.
I agree with both of them. We all feel very involved. Everyone asks us questions. As parents, as family, these have been good families and having gone through good days and bad days we are definitely in the seat to listen, to reflect, to talk, to have a nice exchange of ideas to everyone, the bishops, the cardinals and other auditors. So, yes, we feel we are wanted and we definitely feel that ,yes, maybe in some small way we are contributing to some change.